Thorin: FalleN after the online era is the most overrated in-game leader of all time

On the latest episode of the Hot Take Point Made podcast, outspoken Thorin dropped another hot take — FalleN after the online era is the most overrated in-game leader of all time.He looked back at FalleN’s career since 2020 and argued that his results in recent years do not justify the reputation people keep giving him.

Thorin: During PGL Major Antwerp 2022, I said one thing: FalleN is one of the most overrated players in CS history. And I said it right after he had put up a great performance, so you can imagine what happened — everyone went nuclear.

This time, I’ll narrow the scope a bit: if we’re only talking about the in-game leader role, especially over the years since the pandemic, I think FalleN is in that top tier of the most overrated names.

Start with this current FURIA lineup. Since FalleN announced that he will retire, the team has almost ground to a halt. They have even started letting YEKINDAR take on more in-game leader duties on some maps, while the conversation around FURIA has long since shifted to “who takes over after FalleN leaves,” “who stays,” and “who is leaving.” That alone already says plenty.

Of course, FalleN’s supporters will immediately play their strongest card: FURIA won four titles in a row last year. Fine, then let’s look at those four titles — FISSURE Playground #2, Thunderpick World Championship, IEM Chengdu, and BLAST Premier Hong Kong Rivals. It sounds impressive, sure, but the problem is that those four trophies are not on the same level at all.

IEM Chengdu and BLAST Premier Hong Kong Rivals are fine: one was a final win over Vitality, the other a win over Falcons. Those are real big-event titles. But FISSURE Playground #2 and Thunderpick World Championship clearly carry less weight; the latter is even closer to a tier-1.5 tournament, and it did not bring together all of the strongest teams at the time.

So don’t automatically treat “four straight titles” as “four top-tier championships.” Realistically, it comes down to two genuinely meaningful big-event titles.

Then look at the Majors. FURIA didn’t show much at BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025; at the next Major, though, they got an extremely favorable playoff draw. They were ranked very high at the time, while top teams like Vitality, Spirit, and Falcons were all on the other side of the bracket. And what happened? They were knocked out by NAVI in the first round.

More importantly, FalleN did not join FURIA six months ago, or even a year ago. He has been on this team since 2023. After all that time, the only results really worth bringing up again and again are basically two heavyweight titles and one Major final.

That would obviously be a solid result for an ordinary in-game leader, but that is exactly the issue here: when people rate FalleN, they have never judged him by the standard of a merely good in-game leader.They are talking about a legend, a historic all-time great, GOAT-tier, so the bar should obviously be higher.

And what I really can't understand is how the same group of people can criticize karrigan every single day.

You can say he should leave FaZe, say his form is bad, say he should be replaced on Falcons right now. But when it comes to FalleN, it suddenly turns into: "It doesn't matter, he's about to retire anyway."

Why?If you only look at the years since the pandemic, karrigan's results and the length of time he has stayed at the top level are both clearly stronger than FalleN's.

Of course, that does not mean FalleN was not great in the past — quite the opposite. In 2016 and 2017, FalleN really was a world-class in-game leader. He was not just an in-game leader; his individual level was also very strong, and he often had real impact in key matches. Even in 2018, I would not say he had completely fallen behind.

But the problem is, that was many years ago. From post-2019, to Imperial, to today's FURIA, you can't keep using the FalleN of ten years ago to validate the FalleN of today. Legacy status is one thing; how he should be rated now is another.

Some people still use the map pool changes to excuse him: Overpass is gone, Train is gone, so FURIA have a harder time.But if you really are the kind of all-time great in-game leader people claim, that is exactly the problem you are supposed to solve.

Isn't the value of a top-tier in-game leader supposed to be finding the answers again after the environment changes?When the maps change, you develop new maps; when the system stops working, you rebuild it. If a FURIA roster this strong on paper can only consistently create real advantages on one or two maps, then of course I'm going to start questioning the in-game leader.

So my view is actually simple: peak FalleN was genuinely great, but post-pandemic FalleN has been far too protected by his past reputation. If you judge only his work as an in-game leader over the past few years, he is absolutely in that most-overrated tier.